--- Log opened Sun Mar 16 00:00:16 2008
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10:11 < mark_alec> seems someone is using the name 'Gentoo Communications' in australia
10:12 < mark_alec> http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/library/it-nielsen3/
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14:33 < jdough> so when is the chat to begin?
14:34 < rane> in 5 hours?
14:34 < jdough> yeah i just got done figuring it out
14:34 < jdough> why would gentoo incorperate?
14:35 < jdough>  incorporate*
14:35 < rane> incorporate?
14:36 < jdough> become a corporation
14:36 < jdough> a company
14:36 < jdough> "The agenda for the first meeting includes discussion of incorporation, the bylaws and future plans." --gentoo.org
14:45 < rane> but we need to be registered with the goverment...
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14:56 < jdough> why?
14:56 < jdough> and which gov?
14:56 < jdough> the US?
14:56 <@fmccor> jdough, We are already incorporated (the Foundatation), but we need to reinstate active status.
14:56 < jdough> really
14:57 < jdough> i didnt know a non-profit could be incorporated
14:57 <@fmccor> jdough, We are a NM non-profit, and for tax purposes, need to go through soom hoops with the feds.
14:57 < jdough> ok
14:58 < jdough> that makes more sense
14:58 <@fmccor> jdough, Think of the Free Software Foundation, which is a non-profit Massachusetts corporation.
14:58 < jdough> i didnt know they were an officially filed corp.
14:59 <@fmccor> They are, and Richard Stallman is the Chairman.
14:59 <@fmccor> jdough, You need something like that once you accept donations and wish to support something with them,
15:00 <@fmccor> FSF is legally a charity, as is (I think) the Gentoo Foundation.
15:00 < jdough> yeah i figured thats what was meant as soon as you said taxes
15:00 < jdough> that makes more sense
15:01 < jdough> i had a 'knee-jerk' reactin when i saw the words corporation
15:02 < jdough> like gentoo was caving to become more like ubuntu
15:02 < jdough> so does gentoo have pro-bono lawyers that help with the filing?
15:03 <@fmccor> As best as I can figure, Ubuntu is not a corporation but a private foundation.
15:05 < jdough> so convoluted
15:05 < jdough> i just got a job for proctor and gamble
15:05 < jdough> and two days ago we ordered 27,000 worth of servers and fail-over servers
15:06 <@fmccor> jdough, But right now, the Gentoo Foundation is organized to be a corporation (and to be non-profit, most likely classified as a "charity" with one beneficiary).
15:06 < jdough> and so i was feaful of losing my gentoo
15:06 < jdough> who is the beneficiary?
15:07 <@fmccor> jdough, Once you get near to the tax code, things get very convoluted --- thank the US Congress for that.
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15:07 < jdough> yeah i am reading on the side while we chat and this is confusing
15:08 < jdough> when there is no money in something, no one wants to help
15:10 <@fmccor> jdough, It's a bit more than that.  The Foundation is supposed to control things like copyrights, trademarks, and such (like the Gentoo name, the "g" symbol, etc.)
15:10 < jdough> yeah i understand that
15:10 < jdough> but i dont understand the need for all the different licensing
15:11 < jdough> i would like to believe that there should be an all encompassing law
15:11 <@fmccor> The Foundation is the administrative umbrella under which the real work gets done.  You could think of Gentoo/linux as the R&D arm of Gentoo, I suppose.
15:12 < rane> jdough, you should read the charter
15:12 < jdough> gentoo charter
15:12 < rane> jdough, http://www.gentoo.org/foundation/en/
15:12 <@fmccor> jdough, If it were up to me, I'd probably do away with most intellectual property law.  But I'm sort of an anarchistic lawyer. :)
15:13 < jdough> this idea of copyleft laws i like
15:14 < jdough> but once again very convoluted
15:14 < jdough> because you are making use of a system that is meant to enclose and you we are trying to make it open
15:14 <@fmccor> After all trademarks like Kleenex, Xerox, or Heroin (once owned by Bayer) have passed into common usage (well, like Unix I suppose).
15:22 < jdough> (on a side note, after looking at stallman, it makes me think...i like how most of my computer teachers/idols (for lack of a better word) dont look regal or official, they look like down to earth people that are just freakishly smart)
15:22 < jdough> rane, this charter summed it up well
15:23 < jdough> fmccor, you probably know this, why is redhat able to be sold?
15:24 < jdough> does linux become proprietary once you have made it your own?
15:25 < jdough> i would think that since the vanilla kernel is GPL
15:25 < jdough> you would have to make everything that is an analog, also GPL or some extension there-of
15:31 <@fmccor> jdough, I suppose Redhat is not a non-profit, but I haven't checked.
15:31 < jdough> i figured that
15:32 < jdough> but i mean wouldnt they be required to only offer support for their GPL software
15:32 < jdough> only be able to charge for service for their GPL software*****
15:33 < jdough> like ubuntu; they give it away but say they will do service for a fee
15:36 <@fmccor> jdough, I'm not sure off the top of my head, but I'm sure what they do is legal.  They appear to be a public for-profit corporation.  I think they can charge for physical products (as Gentoo can if you buy a CD) and for services.
15:36 <@fmccor> They can't charge for open software itself because of the license, but I don't see why they can't charge for service.
15:37 <@fmccor> SuSE was the same way.
15:37  * fmccor wanders away until it gets closer to meeting time.
15:37 < jdough> that makes sense
15:38 < jdough> i have to go to work, catch you all at 1
15:38 <@fmccor> Please do.
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15:39 < jdough> will do, thanks for answering my questions
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17:43  * tgall_foo notes meeting in a little over 2 hours
17:58  * NeddySeagoon notes only 24 attendees so far :(
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18:00 <@fmccor> Who wants to sit in the stands 2 hours before the game begins?  It's not as if the pre-meeting entertainment were all that great.
18:23 -!- Irssi: #gentoo-trustees: Total of 25 nicks [9 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 16 normal]
18:26 <@tgall_foo> nibbts!  something to remewmber for next time ... pre-game entertainment ...
18:27  * tgall_foo switches to lappy
18:31  * NeddySeagoon sells icecreams to the early arrivals
18:35  * Dr_Who would happily take some Ben and Jerries
18:54  * wltjr cries while waiting for meeting, staring out the window at a perfect FL day, no clouds, faint sound of the beach/women calling :(
18:54 <@Dr_Who> it's the joys that comes with being a trustee wltjr 
18:55 <@Dr_Who> I'll have the joys of both the meeting and 2 kids to be watching ...
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19:03  * wltjr needs to get out so he can find someone to have kids with :) or at least to knock up 
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19:08 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, if you go out you will e bitten to death by assorted winged insects
19:11 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: nah, that's only in swampy areas with sitting water
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19:12 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, you must have some really well behaved insects
19:14 < [Carrie]> I'm not sure I want to even ask the context of THAT.
19:14 <@Dr_Who> we certainly don't have any well behaved insects in mn... course they arefrozen solid right now ....  but things are starting to thaw
19:14 <@Dr_Who> [Carrie], sometimes it's good just to nod and smile
19:15 <@wltjr> only time flies bather me is when it comes time to wash the car, and I have to clean them off the front :(
19:15 <@wltjr> s/bather/bother
19:16 < [Carrie]> you bathe in flies?
19:16 < [Carrie]> oh
19:17 < crimethinker> (I'm looking for reliable managed hosting with Gentoo.  /msg with unbiased reviews or your shameless sales pitch)
19:18 <@NeddySeagoon> crimethinker, ask bunder in  -forums  he does that sort of thing, so I guess he knows the competition too
19:18 < crimethinker> thx.
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19:25 < Tiger> hello
19:25 < [Carrie]> hi Tiger
19:29 -!- Irssi: #gentoo-trustees: Total of 28 nicks [9 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 19 normal]
19:30 -!- Irssi: #gentoo-trustees: Total of 28 nicks [9 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 19 normal]
19:32 < rane> warm up
19:34 <@NeddySeagoon> rane, 90 press ups - now! please 
19:35 < [Carrie]> ninety!
19:35 <@NeddySeagoon> hes very fitt
19:35 <@NeddySeagoon> fit
19:35 < [Carrie]> or maybe he meant a fuzzy blankie or hottub.
19:38 < crimethinker> I would guess Tux doesn't do well in the tropics
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19:41 <@fmccor> wltjr, I'll trade, if you like.  It's cold and windy here, no reason to be outside.
19:41  * fmccor checks in
19:42 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, Its dark, cold and windy here ... even less reason to be outside 
19:43 <@wltjr> in those conditions I would happily be indoors, just when it's awesome outside, sucks to be inside :(
19:43 <@Dr_Who> greets fmccor
19:43 < crimethinker> laptop, wifi
19:44 <@fmccor> Dark already?  Wel, in a few months, you'll have 20 hours of daylight or so.
19:44 < crimethinker> Where is this?
19:44 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, yep ... we get 6 weeks in the summer when the sky is always blue (if you can see it)
19:44 <@NeddySeagoon> crimethinker, Scotland
19:45 < crimethinker> aha.
19:45 <@Dr_Who> NeddySeagoon, by now I'd thik you'd be fairly close to 12
19:45 <@NeddySeagoon> Dr_Who, yep ... its not pitch black out but pretty dark
19:46 <@NeddySeagoon> The equinox is on Thursday - for everyone
19:47 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: didn't realize that, I am part Scottish with my ancestry :), thus last name has no P, Scottish spelling 
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19:48 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, if you get across to look up your ancestors, I'll get you a wee dram or two 
19:48  * NeddySeagoon spots amne hiding in a corner ...
19:48 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: my grandfather did, my mom was over there some years ago, and brought me back some family cloth or something, can't recall proper name
19:49 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: dad's side, mom was just in area :)
19:49 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, the family Tartan
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19:50 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: yeah, it's plaid, not sure where I put it
19:50 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, You make yourself a Kilt
19:51 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: not sure about all that, however there is a OpenSolaris/Enlightenment dude that sports one, I have seen him twice at LWE sporting it, once in 05, then again in 06 :)
19:51 <@Dr_Who> well I'm sure he could talk the royal mile and find a place that'd happily make him one
19:51 <@Dr_Who> s/talk/walk/
19:51 <@NeddySeagoon> Dr_Who, Several ...
19:51 < [Carrie]> kilts are lots of fun
19:52 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: but I must say, dude in a kilt, gal in a dress, lots of possibilities for quickies :)
19:52  * Dr_Who rather liked visiting scotland
19:52 < [Carrie]> wltjr, exactly
19:52 < crimethinker> we had a student who wore one to his interviews.
19:52 <@wltjr> much less, adequate air flow and ventilation, wtf stuck us in pants and shorts?
19:52 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, There is nothing worn under the kilt either ...
19:52 <@wltjr> really women should wear pants, and guys things that let us hang
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19:53 < [Carrie]> neddy, wikipedia disagrees with you.
19:53 <@wltjr> that's a quick fix, edit wikipeida ;)
19:53  * Dr_Who will avoid this debate ....
19:53 <@NeddySeagoon> [Carrie], Its all in perfect working order ...
19:54 <@wltjr> it's like bicycles, why gals have a lower bar, and guys get to rack them selves with a high mid bar 
19:54 < crimethinker> wltjr, you're at least #100 to think of that re this topic on that page
19:54 < crimethinker> and there is a platoon of editors ready to revert you if you try it :)
19:54 < [Carrie]> wltjr, you lost me there.
19:55 <@NeddySeagoon> [Carrie], I'm not a Scot, I just live here ... I'm one of the Auld Enemy
19:55 <@wltjr> crimethinker: look at guys and gals bicycles
19:55 < crimethinker> yeah, I know
19:55 <@wltjr> er, [Carrie] sorry crimethinker  :)
19:56 <@wltjr> damn tab completion, and me not typing enough chars
19:56 < [Carrie]> funny, you don't see a debate about wearing undies on the page about girls skirts.
19:58 <@Dr_Who> tsunam, ?  
19:58 <@Dr_Who> 2 mintes by my watch
19:58 < [Carrie]> 2 mints? got a hot date?
19:59 < rane> can start checking if everybody is here
19:59  * fmccor is
19:59 <@Dr_Who> eh .. minutes ... no .. no hot date ... just a 6month old a a 4 year old that I'm watching while trying to participate ...
19:59 < crimethinker> kids are a joy.
20:00 <@NeddySeagoon> Sun Mar 16 19:00:02 GMT 2008
20:00 < moozphat> got 2 6 months old here ;-)
20:00 <@NeddySeagoon> lets start
20:00 <@NeddySeagoon> Roll Call ...
20:00 <@Dr_Who> groovy
20:00 <@Dr_Who> tgall here
20:00 <@fmccor> Here
20:00  * wltjr is present
20:00 <@NeddySeagoon> tsunam, ...
20:01 <@wltjr> it's noon out west, so either asleep or at the weekly bay area crew's BBQ if they are still having those :)
20:01 <@NeddySeagoon> We'll continue anyway ... the agenda is at http://xrl.us/bg25p
20:01 <@Dr_Who> yup .. least we have quorum
20:01 <@Dr_Who> NeddySeagoon, do you want a motion ?
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20:02  * omsai is here
20:02 <@NeddySeagoon> Dr_Who, I was just going to run through the agenda ... its been posted 2 weeks and no emails.
20:02 <@NeddySeagoon> 1. Introductions
20:03  * fmccor looks for tsunam's contact info
20:04 <@NeddySeagoon> You can read about me http://dev.gentoo.org/~neddyseagoon/docs/manifesto.xml  thats my election manifesto
20:05 <@NeddySeagoon> I'm not going to paste to the channel unless there is some demand for it
20:05 <@Dr_Who> have to find the link with my intro / anifesto
20:05  * wltjr points to his http://dev.gentoo.org/~wltjr/manifestos/2008_gentoo_board_of_trustees.xml (out of laziness)
20:05 <@Dr_Who> it's on the election page if anyone is curious
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20:06  * fmccor points to his note accepting nomination
20:07 <@NeddySeagoon> Dr_Who, thats http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/elections/foundation-200802.xml
20:07 <@fmccor> Also linked from elections page.
20:08 <@NeddySeagoon> I can't find anything for tsunam 
20:08 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, did you contact tsunam  ?
20:08 <@fmccor> NeddySeagoon, I can't find a contact for him.
20:08 <@Dr_Who> thought he had sent that via email
20:08  * wltjr calls Josh
20:08 <@fmccor> So did I, but I don't see it.
20:08 <@NeddySeagoon> thanks ...
20:09 <@wltjr> fmccor: Subject: Records, etc. 
20:09 <@wltjr> voicemail
20:09 <@NeddySeagoon> ok .. we tried
20:10 <@NeddySeagoon> Any more Introductions ?
20:10 <@wltjr> left a vm, he is mia, I think bailed to Mexico via Gentoo funds :)
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20:10 <@NeddySeagoon> Item 2 Vote of Thanks to Outgoing Trustees
20:10 <@Dr_Who> well lets hope not
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20:11 < welp> DrEeevil: u2slow
20:11 <@NeddySeagoon> I would like to propose a vote of thanks to the outgoing trustees and everyone who has helped to get the Gentoo Foundation off the ground.
20:11 < DrEeevil> I r
20:12 <@Dr_Who> motion to acknowledge and deeply thank past trustees, and especially call out g2boojum for his help as we ste into our new roles
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20:12 <@fmccor> Second
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20:12 <@Dr_Who> NeddySeagoon, least i presume we're using parliamentary procedure...
20:13 <@fmccor> And I vote for it.
20:13  * wltjr votes Yeah
20:13 <@Dr_Who> i vote : yea
20:13 <@NeddySeagoon> Carried
20:13 <@tsunam> ^^^ for some reason thought it was 20:00 not 19:00
20:13 <@tsunam> for the meeting
20:13 < welp> tsunam: you fail.
20:13  * welp hides
20:13 <@tsunam> welp: meh probably
20:13 <@Dr_Who> hey tsunam 
20:13  * fragalot beams at welp and tells him to behave.
20:14 < welp> tsunam: probably due to the council meetings being at 20:00
20:14 <@wltjr> tsunam: time wasn't mentioned in email, I think just on agenda page
20:14 < welp> fragalot: ;)
20:14 <@NeddySeagoon> tsunam, we have done item 1 and 2 ... would you like to say a few words of introduction
20:14 <@fmccor> It was in the email as a proposal.
20:14 < welp> Ken69267: you suck
20:14 < welp> ok, /me stfu
20:14  * omsai shusses audience
20:14 < Tatsh> so
20:15 < Tatsh> what is going to be spoken of?
20:15 <@tsunam> NeddySeagoon: nothing really...most people are aware of me, if they are not. I've been around the foundation/trustee's for quite a while and poked at them for long enough to try and get things accomplished so
20:15  * Dr_Who points at topic for agenda
20:15 < welp> Tatsh: http://xrl.us/bg25p
20:15 <@wltjr> fmccor: this is what I was referring to http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-nfp/msg_aa974a35dbb46f4b2d49f8ad1466eb31.xml
20:15 <@NeddySeagoon> Tatsh, The agenda in in /topic
20:15 -!- vladms [n=vladms@200-112-dyn.ipact.nl] has joined #gentoo-trustees
20:15 <@wltjr> fmccor: I think the other with time might have been internal amongst us
20:16 <@NeddySeagoon> tsunam, thats very true - thanks
20:16 <@Dr_Who> NeddySeagoon, item 3?
20:16 <@NeddySeagoon> Item 3 Announcement of Office Holders
20:16 < Tatsh> well brb
20:16 <@wltjr> tsunam: you just didn't write a manifesto ;) we all diverted to that for our intros
20:16 <@NeddySeagoon> We decided the following :-
20:16 <@NeddySeagoon> Roy Bamford (NeddySeagoon) President
20:16 <@NeddySeagoon> Ferris McCormick (fmccor) - Vice President
20:16 <@NeddySeagoon> Joshua Jackson (tsunam) - Treasurer
20:16 <@NeddySeagoon> Tom Gall (tgall) - Secretary
20:16 <@NeddySeagoon> William L. Thomson Jr. (wltjr) - Director
20:17 <@Dr_Who> NeddySeagoon, i believe since ths is our first forma meeting, we do need motion and vote to approve that
20:17 -!- Tatsh [n=Tatsh_zz@c-76-19-124-178.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
20:17 <@Dr_Who> which I so move :-)
20:17 <@fmccor> So moved.
20:17 < welp> wait, who's Dr_Who and why does he have ops?
20:17 <@NeddySeagoon> Dr_Who, It can't be a formal meeting - its open to members of the public ... but I don't mind a vote 
20:17 <@wltjr> welp: tgall
20:17 <@Dr_Who> welp, Im tgall
20:17 <@fmccor> welp, tgall
20:17 < welp> oh, ok, that clears that up
20:18 <@Dr_Who> I'm on my lappy ...
20:18 <@NeddySeagoon> We agreed to be as transparent as possible ..
20:18 <@Dr_Who> indeed
20:18 <@wltjr> Dr_Who: and playing pappy :)
20:18 <@tsunam> it would be a vote by the foundation...not an open vote however...
20:19 <@Dr_Who> it's a great slate of folks and i think we all look forward to performing our respective roles
20:19 <@wltjr> tsunam: yeah we did a mini one before you showed up for a vote of thanks to past trustees
20:19 <@NeddySeagoon> tsunam, Even that is not needed for officers ... just the 5 of us
20:19 <@Dr_Who> tsunam, correct
20:19 <@Dr_Who> tsunam, which is what i meant ... and by formal meeting I mean a meeting of the 5 of us 
20:19 <@tsunam> k
20:19 <@NeddySeagoon> Now we get to the interesting bits ..
20:20 <@Dr_Who> point of order .. we have a motion on the floor
20:20  * wltjr seconds the motion
20:20  * NeddySeagoon is in favour
20:20 <@tsunam> no need to second a point of order *laughs*
20:20  * wltjr votes Yeah
20:20  * fmccor votes yes
20:20  * Dr_Who votes yea
20:21  * tsunam checks yes
20:21 <@NeddySeagoon> Unanimous 
20:21 <@NeddySeagoon> Item 4 Plan For the Future (With Approx Timescales) 
20:21 -!- arachnist [i=arachnis@paludis/monkey/arachnist] has joined #gentoo-trustees
20:21  * omsai leans forward in his seat
20:21  * fmccor notes that4 includes 5 & 6, really.
20:21 < welp> omsai: stop blocking my view!
20:22 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, true
20:22 <@tsunam> Well I can start with financial related materials if we'd like first
20:22  * omsai points at the overhead chat tv-screen
20:22 <@wltjr> update bylaws, compliance with state, fed, establish bank account, other business, ~2 months time frame for all
20:22 <@NeddySeagoon> tsunam, yes please ... I've lost moy notes
20:22 <@tsunam> heh
20:23 <@wltjr> locate and retain accountaint/registered agent, seek legal council on current legal/filing situation
20:23 <@Dr_Who> sounds good tsunam 
20:23 <@tsunam> I put out some calls to various banks of friday
20:23 <@tsunam> So far I've contacted bankofamerica, washington mutual, wells fargo, comerica, citibank
20:23 <@wltjr> tsunam: any chances of establishing before correcting legal or is that a blocker?
20:23 <@tsunam> of those, washington mutual does not deal with international at all so its eliminated
20:23 <@tsunam> its a legal blocker
20:24 <@tsunam> as its not a personal account...
20:24 <@wltjr> tsunam: do we need to be concerned with international atm? couldn't that flow through PayPal?
20:24 <@tsunam> As well for a business, there is background related materials for the group, and the person who is the treasurer as well.
20:24 <@wltjr> tsunam: sure, just wasn't sure if you have made it to the requirements point with any
20:24 <@Dr_Who> it would seem we have to face international at some point .. might as well do it from the start
20:24 <@tsunam> wltjr: currently yes, however not everyone likes paypal, and being able to have people do wire transfers might be beneficial
20:25 <@Dr_Who> tsunam, any outlook on costs vs service from what you saw ?
20:25 <@tsunam> wltjr: as well...it would allow us to do wire transfers from our bank to other members who've spent money on behalf of the foundation
20:25 <@wltjr> international will be like Citi, Chase, HSBC, etc
20:25 <@tsunam> Dr_Who: citibank was the most knowledgeable
20:25 <@wltjr> tsunam: we should be able to do wire transfers via western union worse case
20:25 <@Dr_Who> tsunam, how about from a cost perspective ?
20:26 <@tsunam> they have a service for sending money in euro's for example 
20:26 <@wltjr> but I don't believe western union offers any banking solutions
20:26 <@tsunam> Dr_Who: unfortunately I was not able to get a true cost perspective due to the fact that I did not have all information available as well
20:26 <@wltjr> tsunam: Citi is internationally owned, Kindom Holding Group, Saudi's, so likely best international support
20:26 <@wltjr> tsunam: short of like Chase, now owned by J.P. Morgan
20:27 <@Dr_Who> sounds like a good prospect !
20:27 <@tsunam> citibank as well...depending on what kind of organization we incorporate as (llc etc..)
20:27 <@tsunam> has different accounts that are beneficial to us
20:27 <@Dr_Who> sounds good
20:27 <@tsunam> including interest based checking accounts potentially
20:27 <@wltjr> tsunam: I think wrt to sending money internationally we can get by with PayPal and Western Union, not sure we need that to be part of actual banking solution
20:28 <@tsunam> I will contact chase and hsbc next week
20:28 <@wltjr> tsunam: now that would be ideal, as we should keep a min balance to satisfy the min requirements
20:28 <@NeddySeagoon> tsunam, Right now we don't have a bank ... whats stopping us getting one and how/when can it be fixed ?
20:28 <@wltjr> tsunam: interest barring for sure IMHO
20:28 <@tsunam> I would prefer to keep a minimum ammount in the paypal account
20:28 -!- posuser [n=chatzill@71-38-176-202.cdrr.qwest.net] has joined #gentoo-trustees
20:28 <@tsunam> NeddySeagoon: we need to be a legal entity, and I need to go to the banks with that documentation
20:29 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: likely going to hit a legal barrier at some point, chicken egg, so we need to keep on with filings and etc in the mean time, and get that to tsunam  ASAP
20:29 <@Dr_Who> did we determine if we have an EID ?
20:29 <@Dr_Who> aka tax id already Z?
20:29 <@tsunam> THat's part of what I need
20:29 <@wltjr> Dr_Who: yes, EIN, not sure what it is or who has it
20:29 <@fmccor> NeddySeagoon, Our legal status is still in limbo --- we have to fix that before most anything else.
20:29 <@NeddySeagoon> Dr_Who, we do
20:29 <@Dr_Who> s/Z//
20:29 <@wltjr> g2boojum: dropped by and said we do have one, it might be on the paperwork he scanned 
20:29 <@fmccor> g2boojum said we had an EID
20:29 <@Dr_Who> ok if we have an id great... that might be enough to open an account
20:29 <@wltjr> not sure if there is a way to look that up
20:30 < omsai> tsunam: "including interest based checking accounts potentially" -> I don't think non-profits can do that
20:30 <@wltjr> EIN, not EID :) Employer Identifcation Number :)
20:30 <@Dr_Who> mea culpa
20:30 <@tsunam> Dr_Who: Don't believe that'll be enough with Citi at least
20:30 < welp> mea culpa?
20:30 <@Dr_Who> tsunam, good follow up question
20:30 <@wltjr> omsai: I think npo's can make $, they just have to spend it :)
20:30 < welp> on me!
20:31  * welp hides
20:31 <@tsunam> that about covers my update
20:31 < omsai> wltjr: ah, thank you!
20:31 <@tsunam> and the fact that I'd like to move money from paypay to a bank account. 
20:31 <@fmccor> wltjr, npo's don't have to spend it, but they can't treat it as profit to the benefit of, say, the directors.
20:31 <@wltjr> tsunam: and you have reimbursed all outstanding correct
20:31 <@tsunam> so there's far less in the paypal
20:32 <@tsunam> wltjr: I'm still pending on a report for Grant about what he needs to be reimburst for
20:32 <@Dr_Who> fmccor: yes exacrtly my understanding
20:32 <@wltjr> tsunam: is g2boojum sending you the check from the past bank account? can you follow up on that and see that you get said check/funds
20:32 -!- posuser is now known as jdough
20:32 <@tsunam> wltjr: will do
20:32 <@wltjr> tsunam: ok, so it was just fmccor that you reimbursed atm
20:32 <@tsunam> yes
20:32 <@Dr_Who> so would NM status be next then ?
20:33 <@NeddySeagoon> yep - Reincorporation ...
20:33 <@wltjr> sure, and really nothing there, g2boojum emailed us scans of the paperwork, I am not sure if that's just what he sent in or what they sent back
20:33 <@wltjr> last we spoke with g2boojum per the arranged time, we discussed me getting the diff form #'s so I could call NM again
20:33 <@wltjr> as they speak in form #'s FYI :)
20:33 <@fmccor> wltjr, What I have copies of is what he filed with them, but nothing else.
20:34 <@wltjr> I haven't checked the email scans for form #'s, so they might all be there
20:34 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, g2boojum was also going to scan and send more stuff - have you seen that ?
20:34 < [Carrie]> sigh.
20:34 < welp> [Carrie]: hmm?
20:34 <@wltjr> we really need all form #'s what he sent in, what they sent back, etc, then we can contact them again
20:34 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: beyond the first email and scan, I don't believe I have seen any others
20:35 <@Dr_Who> wltjr, by next meeting think we'll have connected with NM ?
20:35 <@wltjr> now we don't really need to wait on g2boojum/Grant, we can take what he provided us so far and contact NM again, starting oursevles for the first time, but 3rd attempt
20:35 -!- musikc [n=musikc@gentoo/developer/musikc] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
20:35 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, We need to get in touch with him again, if he doesn't read this backlog
20:36 <@Dr_Who> yup ...  
20:36 <@wltjr> Dr_Who: hell yes, we don't have to wait on g2boojum for stuff if need be
20:36 <@Dr_Who> good deal
20:36 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: well I think g2boojum has really done enough
20:36 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, Sounds like a plan ... who is going to do what and when ?
20:36 <@wltjr> I think we are best to take what's provided, get our hands on bylaws, get them updated, and move on
20:36 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: well we kinda need to start by geting people to work with, before we go and screw up a 3rd attempt
20:36 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, so its bylaws nex then ?
20:37 <@Dr_Who> sounds like it
20:37 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: as in either legal counsil, and/or accountant and registered agent in NM
20:37 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: basically, as we can take them, and get them on file with NM in one shot, versus, reinstating then updating bylaws which will be a PITA
20:37 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, So we change the papers to remove drobbins and add the agent
20:37 <@wltjr> then take the same to IRS if we need to update anything there
20:38 <@NeddySeagoon> It never got to the IRS before ...
20:38 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: I believe so, but that's likely where we could use a bit of council, to ensure we do everything properly
20:38 <@Dr_Who> or pending a discussion around 501c3/501c6 if we want to open that can of worms ....
20:38 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: well if we go changing our bylaws to become a 501c3 vs c6, we have to take that to the Feds
20:38 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: not sure what we need to do at the Fed level atm, if anything unless we change things
20:39 <@NeddySeagoon> sure ... after we have registered with the IRS
20:39 <@fmccor> wltjr, we don't have official bylaws that I know of.
20:39 <@tsunam> we have to register federally as a nfp with the irs
20:39 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: not sure if we need to file anything for 07, but something will have to be filed for 08, due to change in tax laws for NPO's under a certain yearly revenue, now all have to report regardless
20:39 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, Nothing ... we need the NM stuff in order to go to the IRS
20:39 <@fmccor> wltjr, we have a proposal at http://www.gentoo.org/foundation/en/bylaws.xml
20:39 <@Dr_Who> as a suggestion ... how about I volunteer to explore what (if any) changes a 501c3 approach would require
20:39 <@wltjr> fmccor: well there was work on a updated draft from past trustees right?
20:40 <@Dr_Who> so I would propose we keep on the current path wrt NM ...  let's not stop that train
20:40 <@tsunam> I'd like to reread over th bylaws actually
20:40 <@fmccor> wltjr, So rumor has it, but I've never seen it.
20:40 <@wltjr> Dr_Who: that's fine, but really can do that with an outside entity once we retain them
20:40 <@Dr_Who> but that I take care of the research of 501c3 side of things
20:40 <@wltjr> ok, let's back up
20:40 <@wltjr> we need to get legal council, and someone that can be our accountant and registered agent in NM
20:40 <@tsunam> correct
20:40 <@Dr_Who> and come back with a specific proposal for 501c3 with information in hand for us trustees to consider
20:40 <@NeddySeagoon> rl03 has don some bylaw work too by I don't know where it is ... he was going to wrote things up in the week
20:40 <@tsunam> we have some legal council now
20:41 <@wltjr> Dr_Who: then you can say get info from them and etc wrt to 501c3 501c6, etc
20:41 <@wltjr> Dr_Who: sure, I agree we have to weight out the options/benefit of 501c status changes
20:41 <@Dr_Who> sure .. I also have access to legal council as well as an accountant who can advise me/us over coffee :-)
20:41 <@tsunam> registered agent shouldn't be much issue. I would suggest a lawyer who serves as a registered agent when we go to pick one
20:41 <@wltjr> Dr_Who: same here, actually one person for both but they are in Haiti for another week :(
20:42 <@wltjr> tsunam: I have no problem with us getting a lawyer in NM, but if we pay them, lawyers are $$$$
20:42 <@wltjr> agents and accountants should be pretty affordable and cheap
20:42 <@NeddySeagoon> tsunam, do you know of anything done already wrt an agent ?
20:42 <@tsunam> wltjr: I said lawyer as registerd agent..not lawyer as lawyer
20:42 <@tsunam> NeddySeagoon: nothing as far as I know
20:42 <@wltjr> I am not sure how much legal council we need, an accountant might be able to advise
20:42 <@fmccor> tsunam, or an accountant.
20:42 -!- Kish [n=bla@e177079254.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Connection timed out]
20:43 <@tsunam> I've done some cursory look around but haven't poked any deeper
20:43 <@Dr_Who> yeah .. there's really two things here ...
20:43 <@tsunam> fmccor: no work on an accountant
20:43 <@Dr_Who> for NM ... that's one ...   and two   : 501c3vs 501c6 
20:43 <@Dr_Who> the former is a gotta do ... the latter is research
20:43 <@wltjr> ideally would be an accountant that would serve as a registered agent, and could advise wrt to 501c status in NM
20:43 <@Dr_Who> 501cX isn't state specific
20:44 <@tsunam> I don't typically see many accountants who are also registered agents
20:44 <@tsunam> 501 is federal
20:44 <@fmccor> Dr_Who, actually, a lawyer or accountant could just tell us.  There's not much research.
20:44 <@wltjr> Dr_Who: correct, but we have to change status if we decide to, which might require changes specific to NM first
20:44 <@Dr_Who> agreed... it should be a straight forward discussion
20:44 <@Dr_Who> wltjr, if we're not shipshape with the irs .. then we don't have a 501cX status yet
20:44 <@tsunam> I doubt we'll want to change after heading down a path to c3 or c6
20:45 <@NeddySeagoon> with an accountant/lawyer in NM ?
20:45 <@Dr_Who> wltjr, or perhaps I misunderstood status there ....
20:45 <@fmccor> wltjr, No, probably not.  Our Articles of Incorporation are pretty general.
20:45 <@Dr_Who> wltjr, IE have we ever filed a 990 for instance ?
20:45 -!- Tatsh [n=Tatsh_zz@c-76-19-124-178.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #gentoo-trustees
20:45 <@tsunam> Dr_Who: not as far as I'm aware
20:45 <@fmccor> Dr_Who, We have Articles of Incorporation and a Certificate of Incorporation Number.
20:46 <@wltjr> Dr_Who: till 08, 990 wasn't required unless you had a certain amount of anual revenue
20:46 <@Dr_Who> fmccor: yes I know ...
20:46 <@Dr_Who> wltjr, that's not my understanding .. but for this conversation ... not important'
20:46 <@wltjr> registered agents in NM seem cheap and readily available
20:46 <@tsunam> wltjr: ~100 bucks
20:46 <@tsunam> for the year
20:46 <@wltjr> Dr_Who: it was in one of the documents I provided from IRS, i was reading it
20:47 <@Dr_Who> wltjr, so for next meeting on the registration agent will you come back with a specific proposal then ?
20:47 <@wltjr> tsunam: yep, not sure what other services they provide, some also provide filing services
20:47 <@wltjr> seems like we should find an agent that can deal with the filings as well :) then we just modify bylaws, provide, they review, submit, etc, we pay
20:47 <@tsunam> wltjr: they act as the business location for the organization. Take messages from the state...pass them to us. If someone was to call and ask for a listing of members they'd give them
20:47 <@fmccor> wltjr, I'd suggest not waiting a month for this.
20:48 <@tsunam> wltjr: there's not a whole lot fo them to do quite honestly
20:48 <@Dr_Who> fmccor: it's an expenditure of money ... it needs approval
20:48 <@fmccor> We can do that any time.
20:48 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, they paying could be delayed if all our funds are in a cheque and we don't have a bank account ... its a little circular
20:48 <@Dr_Who> yes... nothing saying we can't get together in 2 weeks or when wltjr has someting for us to act on
20:48 <@wltjr> fmccor: I agree, and seeing how NeddySeagoon is out of US, feel like shopping around for a registered agent in NM? being our VP ? :)
20:48  * tsunam is looking over form 990
20:49 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: no, we can do out of pocket, or use PayPal checks :)
20:49 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, ok.
20:49 <@tsunam> wltjr: you rely far too heavily on paypal for my likes
20:49 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: tsunam has access to our PayPal account, and it likely has enough funds to cover our restablishement
20:49 <@tsunam> It does
20:49 <@wltjr> tsunam: it's a crutch for now, but it's a really good way to send $ for an organization like ours
20:50 <@Dr_Who> right ...  but let's have a specific proposal from wltjr with an agent...   
20:50 <@tsunam> there are fee's associated with sending checks via it, so I'd rather pay out of my pocket and request being reimburst
20:50 <@Dr_Who> we can worry about how to pay for it once we have that to act on
20:50 <@wltjr> tsunam: I agree we should have a bank account, and not normally a fan of PayPal, but it's pretty ideal here, short of like Western Union or etc, which offers similar services
20:50 <@NeddySeagoon> and costs ... so we can approve the expendature or not
20:50 <@fmccor> This goes in steps.  Right now, our agent is drobbins, and that stays until we are reestablished.  Then we can change agents easily.
20:50 <@wltjr> tsunam: sure, that's entirely up to you :)
20:50 <@tsunam> wltjr: that is true but the kind of money we have in it...bothers me
20:50 <@Dr_Who> NeddySeagoon, exactly
20:51 <@wltjr> tsunam: agreed, and only benefitting them for the most part
20:51 <@NeddySeagoon> tsunam, too much or too little ?
20:51 <@wltjr> tsunam: I am not saying we should keep a balance there, just use it when needed :)
20:51 <@tsunam> NeddySeagoon: too much
20:51 <@wltjr> tsunam: they might offer some banking/interest solutions options, might want to give them a call as well
20:51 <@tsunam> wltjr: I have no problem keeping a balance there, but it will take quite a while to draw funds from it to our bank account when it goes there. I'll bring that up after the bank account is established
20:51 <@wltjr> fmccor: so feel like shopping around for a registered agent?
20:52 <@wltjr> fmccor: they might refer us to an accountant, or offer those services as well, and that would be ideal
20:52 <@wltjr> seems allot of registered agents deal with the filings, which would help us get things strait sooner rather than later
20:52 <@Dr_Who> tsunam, yes nce we have the new account, we basically should just use paypal as a small slush fund with a goal to keep it at a certain balance ... like say $500
20:53 <@tsunam> Dr_Who: correct
20:53 <@tsunam> I will be working on our back quarterly reports as well...
20:53 <@tsunam> as I can do that at least from the paypal history
20:53 <@fmccor> wltjr, It'd take me some time, because I have 0 contacts in NM.  
20:54 <@NeddySeagoon> tsunam, I was going to ask about that ... what shape are the financial records in that you inherited
20:54 <@tsunam> fmccor: might be worthwhile to talk to Daniel Robbins and see about some of his contacts there
20:54 <@tsunam> NeddySeagoon: 2 years overdue =)
20:54 <@wltjr> fmccor: I am just googling, but seems like there is lots of potential
20:54 <@wltjr> fmccor: it's a randmon let your fingers do the walking kind of thing
20:54 <@Dr_Who> wltjr, fmccor: how about you two take that off line ?
20:54 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, drobbins has a vested interest in helping get his name off the paperwork.
20:55 <@tsunam> NeddySeagoon: I'm sure there will be things missed/unaccounted for. However I will try and match the balances as closely as possible and see if I can find where any missing money might of gone to.
20:55 <@fmccor> NeddySeagoon, unless he wants to keep it on.
20:55 <@NeddySeagoon> tsunam, or come from :)
20:55 <@tsunam> NeddySeagoon: correct
20:55 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, thats not a problem either ...
20:55 <@fmccor> Right.
20:55 -!- vladms [n=vladms@200-112-dyn.ipact.nl] has quit ["Leaving"]
20:56 <@fmccor> Because right now he is our agent.
20:56 <@wltjr> Dr_Who: we can, but best to be as transparent as possible
20:56 <@Dr_Who> yes ... you two have to come back with a proposal anyway ....
20:56 <@wltjr> FYI, it seems allot of the registered agent companies also provide other servies, like counseling :)
20:57 <@tsunam> I would suggest contacting a few about probono for the "other" services
20:57 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, you are going to call drobbins then ?   He may know why we chose the 501 ... we did too
20:57 <@fmccor> NeddySeagoon, He's usually on IRC in #gentoo-dev or can be reached by email.  If I have to call him, I'll have to chase down a contact.
20:58 <@wltjr> these guys look promising http://www.bizfilings.com/
20:58 <@fmccor> NeddySeagoon, One way or the other, I'll speak with him.
20:58 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: it looks like many registered agents could help with providing info on 501c stuff
20:58 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, Sorry - contact, in any way you like
20:58 <@wltjr> because these companies are just registered agents :)
20:59 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, fine ... audition a few
20:59 <@fmccor> NeddySeagoon, And since drobbins is our agent at the moment, as a courtesy we need to speak with him before changing anyway.
20:59 <@Dr_Who> I'm sure most of them don't work iwth non profit community driven linux distros ;-)
20:59 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: I can, but really these are core tasks, best to be done by those with a ranking position
20:59 <@wltjr> Dr_Who: I am not sure those details really matter
21:00 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, yes thats for sure.  We do not want to reincorporate with his name on the paperwork without his agreement
21:00 <@Dr_Who> they do ... or you'll end up doing alot of explaining potentially
21:00 <@wltjr> when we re-file, we need to see about getting our names on file
21:00 <@wltjr> then it should just be a matter of changing the filing each year as part of anual report
21:00 <@fmccor> We have to.  We are reinstating, and our Articles are on file and the name him
21:01 <@fmccor> I think we have to be active before changing agents.
21:01 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, thats something to clarifiy
21:01 <@wltjr> Dr_Who: they will care up to the point of being able to classify the entity, once they can classify us, they treat us like any other business with that classification
21:01 <@fmccor> The paperwork Grant sent in last July names him as our agent.
21:01 <@tsunam> basically after we're back good
21:02 <@wltjr> fmccor: pretty sure not, I believe we can update the info as we reinstate
21:02 <@tsunam> we can change and remove daniel from the president role etc...its filing some paperwork
21:02 <@wltjr> tsunam: yes part of anual filing, but when we reinstate, we will be basically doing that
21:02 <@Dr_Who> we winding down on that one then?
21:02 <@fmccor> First priority is to get reinstated.
21:02 <@NeddySeagoon> Looks like it ...
21:02 <@Dr_Who> exactly
21:03 <@fmccor> Then we can act as required.
21:03 <@NeddySeagoon> Thats covered Items 5 and 6 in there too
21:03 <@fmccor> In parallel we can work bylaws, and I have a couple clarifications on that.
21:03 <@wltjr> yes but properly, and if we go reinstating an entity with like say g2boojum  still being on file, we might need his signature to remove or something
21:03 <@fmccor> wltjr, No.
21:04 <@fmccor> Then the bylaws and statutes kick in.
21:04 <@tsunam> which need to be approved
21:04 <@fmccor> Everything we do depends on the bylaws, so long as they are consistent with the statutes.
21:04 <@wltjr> we really need to get in touch with people that do this day in and day out
21:04 <@fmccor> They are approved by us.
21:04 <@NeddySeagoon> tsunam, before we send the paperwork in
21:05 <@tsunam> NeddySeagoon: they've been in "waiting state" for 4 years :-P
21:05 <@Dr_Who> ok .. so one homework item I think we have is to examine, propose (what if any) changes and then vote on the bylaws .. which I would suggest would be an item for the next meeting
21:05 <@fmccor> Because they spell out membership requirements, and so on.
21:05 <@Dr_Who> which again I'd like in 2 weeks
21:05 <@tsunam> I'd say for now 2 weeks would be a good time period to keep stuff moving forward
21:05 <@tsunam> as there's quite a bit to do right now
21:06 <@Dr_Who> yup
21:06 <@Dr_Who> we won't get it all done by the universal two week constant .. but we should see progress!
21:06 <@NeddySeagoon> Dr_Who, we need to ensure the bylaws support the statuats, not contradict them - can we do that without legal help ?
21:06 <@fmccor> NeddySeagoon, Yes.
21:07 <@Dr_Who> NeddySeagoon, one characteristic we will want I'm sure is a reasonable process for modification of the bylaws 
21:07 <@Dr_Who> NeddySeagoon, but yes I agree that having a legal read as we modify / file will be necesary
21:08 <@NeddySeagoon> Dr_Who, yep.  There are a few oddities in there just now - but its not for this meeting
21:08 <@fmccor> Mostly the statutes defer to the bylaws, and the bylaws call out such things as (1) who are the members of the Foundation; (2) what officers does the Foundation have; (3) Qualifications to serve as a Trustee, ...
21:08 -!- emery [n=emery@12-214-38-160.client.mchsi.com] has joined #gentoo-trustees
21:08 <@tsunam> guidelines for how the foundaition is run...
21:08 <@fmccor> Yes.
21:08 <@NeddySeagoon> Any more on the bylaws ... ?
21:08 <@Dr_Who> yeah .. and I don't think we're going for 100 pages of bylaws
21:08 <@NeddySeagoon> tsunam, I understand
21:08 <@tsunam> lol
21:08 <@tsunam> Dr_Who: I hope not
21:09 <@Dr_Who> gentoo documentation .. yes ... bylaws no :-)
21:09 <@fmccor> To quote NM statutes:  The bylaws may contain any provisions for the regulation and management
21:09 <@fmccor> of the affairs of a corporation not inconsistent with law or the
21:09 <@fmccor> articles of incorporation.
21:09 <@Dr_Who> good quote!
21:09 <@Dr_Who> next item then?
21:09 <@NeddySeagoon> Agenda Item 7 Any Other Business ..
21:09 <@fmccor> Bylaws should be 2 or 3 pages at most.
21:10  * Dr_Who doesn't have other business
21:10 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, ?
21:10 <@NeddySeagoon> tsunam,  AOB ?
21:10 <@tsunam> AOB?
21:10 <@fmccor> Just one further comment on bylaws
21:10 <@tsunam> oh
21:10 <@tsunam> any other business..
21:11 <@tsunam> nope not from me
21:11 <@NeddySeagoon> Any Other Business
21:11 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, On you go
21:12 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, AOB ?
21:12 <@fmccor> The proposal on the foundations page mostly needs the Members section (IV) rewritten, because it bears no resemblence to what we do.
21:12 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: not beyond more on the above ;)
21:12  * wltjr thinks we should tap the community wrt to registered agent/accountant
21:12 <@fmccor> Otherwise, it's pretty much boilerplate, and can be made to fit our specifics.
21:13 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, does it contracdit what we do ?
21:13 <@fmccor> wltjr, Now, that is a good idea. 
21:13 <@wltjr> if we don't have any referrals, maybe someone in our community does, not sure if we should do a PR piece or  GMN item
21:13 <@NeddySeagoon> I have one item ... how can we get more help ?
21:13 <@NeddySeagoon> There is a lot to do and just the 5 of us ...
21:14 <@wltjr> but basically a call for help/referrals, on accountant/agent, and seems like any agent, can provide filing services, so we dial in bylaws, find an agent, and can pay them for the filing
21:14 <@fmccor> NeddySeagoon, Membership?  Yes.  We don't admit members by application.  Our members are certain developers or people who have voted for trustee in the past.
21:14 <@tsunam> NeddySeagoon: it seems like a lot...but really isn't 
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21:14 <@tsunam> currently memebers are:
21:14 <@tsunam> Developers who've been developers over a year 
21:14 <@fmccor> NeddySeagoon, Bylaws will spell out how many trustees there are.
21:14 <@tsunam> they automatically get put in...
21:15 <@tsunam> and former developers
21:15 <@tsunam> I believe up to a year afterwords 
21:15 <@tsunam> I'd have to review that part again
21:15 <@tsunam> been a while since I last read them
21:15 <@NeddySeagoon> tsunam, We are discovering what it is we don't know, thats good but I have a feeling that are a lot of unknows we don't even realise ... like an iceberg
21:15 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: yes, that's why we need to retain those that do know ASAP
21:15 <@tsunam> NeddySeagoon: technically we're supossed to have a lot of infomation about our members
21:16 <@wltjr> the only thing we would need a lawyer for would be to review our articles IMHO
21:16 <@NeddySeagoon> tsunam, I know, but we dont.
21:16 <@tsunam> NeddySeagoon: yes I know
21:16 <@wltjr> beyond that the rest can be done by an accountant and/or registered agent, wrt to NM and Fed filings
21:16 <@fmccor> wltjr, That happened when they were put together --- drobbons's lawyer helped, I believe.
21:16 <@Dr_Who> yeah that's one thing where traditional corp be it stock holders investors or whatever are typcailly more than an irc nick 
21:17 <@fmccor> tsunam, All we need is a name and a way to contact them, I think.
21:17 <@tsunam> fmccor: correct
21:17 <@NeddySeagoon> The NM statuats don't like virtual corporations 
21:17 <@wltjr> fmccor: yeah, and I think we would only need them if at all for a review, not really beyond that, unless we want ot pay someone to write our bylaws, etc :)
21:17 <@Dr_Who> byt we do have the copyright assignment document ... so we do have something instrument wise there
21:17 <@tsunam> that's the base requirements I believe
21:17 <@fmccor> As long as they are on file with the agent and we can contact them when we need to, that should be enough.
21:18 <@tsunam> I'll reread that section of the bylaws
21:18 <@NeddySeagoon> Hmm ... that doesn't seem so bad ... if thats all we need to get us back on the rails
21:18 <@Dr_Who> yup .. .good things for deeper discussion on a different day
21:18 <@tsunam> NeddySeagoon: exactly
21:19 <@NeddySeagoon> Any more AoB ?
21:19 <@NeddySeagoon> Agenda Item 8  Open Floor
21:20  * crimethinker watches everyone fall through the open floor
21:20  * NeddySeagoon notes that there are 40 nicks
21:20 < omsai> trustees: I'm interested in contributing to the financial health of Gentoo, but there's no breakdown of where the money goes...
21:20 < omsai> there's just a paypal link
21:20 <@NeddySeagoon> tsunam, one for you ..
21:20 <@wltjr> omsai: hang tight, we have more $ than we need atm
21:20 <@Dr_Who> omsai, as well start to establish reporting ... you'll see progress
21:21 <@tsunam> omsai: correct, we have no budget nor have ever had one. Currently the money isn't being used to its full effective use
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21:21 <@wltjr> omsai: we will be forming a budget, and getting our act there at some point
21:21 < omsai> could the budget be posted publically?  It would reassure the rest of us after the February "Crisis"
21:21 <@wltjr> I need to get out that questionaire/survey for existing sponsors contributors, i will draft up a txt file and either upload it some where, or attach when I sent out the emails
21:22 <@tsunam> omsai: absolutely, there is no reason it should not be public
21:22 < crimethinker> emerge gentoo-budget
21:22 <@wltjr> omsai: everything we do will be publically available
21:22 <@fmccor> omsai, Such documents must be publically available (by law if for no other reason).
21:22 <@wltjr> omsai: their never was a crisis, things were blown out of proportion by certain parties :)
21:22 < omsai> wltjr: fmccor glad to hear it
21:22 <@NeddySeagoon> omsai, we are required to file returns, which will be publicly available, so should the budget be
21:23 < omsai> wltjr: I know, I know... it was a publicity stunt by someone ;)
21:23 <@fmccor> omsai, Everything like that must be on file with our agent if nothing else.
21:23 <@tsunam> omsai: want to thank you for the concern though, as you can see we're trying to get onto a good straight track with this group of trustee's. Hopefully it will happen within the next 2 months that we're ack in good legal standing and can move forward with the true goals of the foundation
21:23 <@wltjr> omsai: FYI I brought the issues up early in January internally, because I knew they would be misperceived by others, which is exactly what happened when info accidentally leaked
21:23 < moozphat> lol, emerge --unmerge crisis
21:24 < DrEeevil> moozphat: you shouldn't install games ;)
21:24 < shpaq> trusstes: i was wondering if there's any chance to become a foundation member without being a developer
21:24 <@wltjr> omsai: out of curiousity, what type of a donation are you thinking of? not in details but in concept, do you consider it a contribution or investment?
21:24 <@tsunam> shpaq: currently at this time no, the bylaws do not allow that
21:24 < omsai> trustees: thank you, that addresses my concern
21:24 <@NeddySeagoon> shpaq, Not at the moment - we would need to chaneg the bylaws for that
21:24 < omsai> wltjr: well it's on 2 levels
21:24 <@wltjr> omsai: we have been discussing a bit to go 501c3 vs 501c6, to allow donations to be written off as charitable contributions
21:25 <@fmccor> shpaq, Not at the moment, but if you have a proposal we can address it.  One part of the "crisis" is that we don't have official bylaws.
21:25 < omsai> wltjr: ordinarily it would the same amount as I would pay or a competing OS - $130
21:25 < crimethinker> Don't forget to donate to the FSF, too.
21:25 < omsai> wltjr: ...at the moment I don't have any business interest, just desktop use
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21:25 <@wltjr> omsai: would you be doing that so you could get a write off? or just to help gentoo as a way of giving back
21:26 <@NeddySeagoon> shpaq, Its something that I want the trustees to discuss but I cannot anticipate the outcome
21:26 < omsai> wltjr: to help Gentoo.  $130 won't be much of a write off
21:26 <@Dr_Who> yes .. we have a few questions yet and want to make sure that we follow the tax laws
21:26 <@wltjr> omsai: basically trying to determine how many of our contributors are doing so for write off purposes, as a 501c3 would benefit them there, and possible encourage that
21:26 <@Dr_Who> omsai, it adds up tho
21:26 <@tsunam> wltjr: I'll have numbers for you by next meeting
21:27 <@tsunam> wltjr: as to our number of contributors who are private citizens 
21:27 <@wltjr> tsunam: wrt? I still need to get you info  :)
21:27 < shpaq> it would be nice to discuss it and allow non-developers to become a foundation's members
21:27 <@tsunam> I can't tell you us/international though
21:27 <@wltjr> tsunam: ah ok, I won't be going there, I will only be hitting up businesses I suspect
21:27 < omsai> Dr_Who: but only in the US if I'm not mistaken
21:27 <@tsunam> wltjr: I have 2 years of donations to paypal to account for
21:27 <@wltjr> tsunam: wrt to our existing sponsors, like GNi, etc
21:27 < shpaq> i understand it needs some bylaws changes?
21:27 <@wltjr> tsunam: and none of them can write that off
21:27 <@NeddySeagoon> shpaq, Agreed but its for after the foundation is back in good standing in New Mexico and with the IRS
21:28 <@fmccor> shpaq, We don't have official bylaws.
21:28 <@tsunam> that's one of the problems
21:28 <@fmccor> That's one of out problems.
21:28 <@wltjr> I am not sure if this round of bylaws changes we will be looking to do any major changes like opening up membership
21:28 <@fmccor> No.
21:29 <@wltjr> that would be ideal, but not sure we want stuff like that, holding back other legal things that need to be taken care of
21:29 <@tsunam> definitely not
21:29 <@fmccor> I think we'll make them conform to what we do now, then step back and amend them as makes sense.
21:29 <@wltjr> that's more for later one, once we have our house in order, and have recovered from that :)
21:29 <@Dr_Who> but for certain ... I think we all feel the pressure to get bylaws in place soon
21:29 <@Dr_Who> but tempered with legal realities that need to  be reflect in those bylaws
21:30 <@fmccor> Yes, because we can't act without them much.
21:30 < crimethinker> Forgive me for not reading all the scroll, but doesn't it mean someone simply needs to write the bylaws and propose them to the group?
21:30 <@Dr_Who> IE we ain't going to wait forever .. but we ain't going to pass something that's not right
21:30 <@wltjr> yeah, and we seem to all be in concensus for the most part, which is good
21:30 <@wltjr> thus I think ~2 months is realistic to clean up or legal house for the most part
21:30 <@fmccor> crimethinker, The "group" initially is the trustees, because the Foundation membership is part of the bylaws themselves.
21:30 <@tsunam> crimethinker: it requires a substancial rewrite to be honest
21:31 <@tsunam> crimethinker: good portions of things need to be redefined
21:31 < rane> and you have no draft yet?
21:31 <@tsunam> we do
21:31 <@tsunam> http://www.gentoo.org/foundation/en/bylaws.xml
21:31 <@Dr_Who> we do .. we're not starting over from scratch
21:32 <@fmccor> crimethinker, What this means is that we will propose them and pass them through the group (gentoo-nfp@?), but the approval is left to the trustees.
21:32 <@wltjr> any rewording of our bylaws now would mostly be to change from 501c3 to 501c6, and/or any other immediate needs, leaving out most ideal things to be discussed and done at a later date
21:32 <@wltjr> er, 501c6 to 501c3
21:32 <@tsunam> okie guys..I need to get going
21:32 <@Dr_Who> have a good one tsunam 
21:32 <@wltjr> same here, need to go check out dryers :(
21:33 <@Dr_Who> so 2 weeks from today? next meeting ?
21:33 <@tsunam> wltjr: lol
21:33 <@wltjr> they all have the same specs online :(
21:33 <@tsunam> that works for me..at the same time?
21:33 <@wltjr> but huge price diffs
21:33 <@Dr_Who> same bat time .. same bat channel
21:33 <@tsunam> wltjr: good luck
21:33 < crimethinker> don't buy Maytag
21:33 < crimethinker> had two new ones break within 2 years
21:33 <@tsunam> ouch :(
21:33 < crimethinker> 2003 and 2005
21:33 <@tsunam> still under waranty though?
21:33 < crimethinker> No
21:33 <@wltjr> no buying today, just research, presently have a ~5yr kenmore that sucks
21:33 <@tsunam> -_-
21:34 <@fmccor> tsunam, Fine with me.  Now, I *think* that perhaps the rest of the world might be going onto DST on the 30th?
21:34 <@tsunam> so was that the plan on moving to the 20:00 at that time?
21:34 <@wltjr> there is no good time, so this is fine 2 weeks ;)
21:34 <@tsunam> well in any case let me know
21:34 <@fmccor> No.
21:35 <@tsunam> have a good afternoon all
21:35 < welp> evening!
21:35 <@fmccor> tsunam, The reason for 1900 was that when Europe goes onto DST, they move up an hour, so 2000UTC is actually late Sunday evening.
21:35 <@tsunam> look forward to reading the summary as well
21:35 <@tsunam> k
21:35 < crimethinker> it's always the middle of the night somewhere
21:35 <@Dr_Who> motion to adjourn
21:35 < omsai> trustees: Thank you for your explanations and all your work.  Keep it up!
21:36 <@fmccor> So moved.
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21:36 < [Carrie]> whee!
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21:37 <@fmccor> shpaq, I'd be interested in what you are thinking of related to membership, but realistically, we can't address it until we have bylaws in some form in place.
21:39 < rane> we first need to expire a hundred of memberships
21:39 < rane> people we have no contact with anymore
21:39 <@NeddySeagoon> sorry RL NMI
21:40 < crimethinker> kids are a joy.
21:40 < shpaq> fmccor: well, there is a large group of gentoo users who do something for gentoo
21:40 < shpaq> but they're non-developers for many reasons
21:41 < shpaq> so, i guess You could discuss opening membership for such persons
21:42 <@fmccor> shpaq, And those will spell out membership as described above.
21:42 <@NeddySeagoon> shpaq, it was on my election manifesto
21:42 <@fmccor> shpaq, I agree with you, actually.
21:43 <@NeddySeagoon> shpaq, but the bylaws we use for incorporation will not have those changes
21:43 < shpaq> NeddySeagoon: sorry, i didn't read it
21:43 <@NeddySeagoon> shpaq No problem
21:43 <@NeddySeagoon> Is that us done ?
21:43 <@NeddySeagoon> Meeting over.
21:43 < shpaq> i guess yes
21:43 <@NeddySeagoon> Sun Mar 16 20:43:57 GMT 2008
21:43 <@fmccor> shpaq, from a practical point of view, we have to make ourselves legal first (which means getting bylaws in place as soon as possible), then get down to our real business, which includes ideas like yours.
21:44 <@NeddySeagoon> I need to go for a while
21:44 < shpaq> fmccor: i agree
21:44 <@fmccor> Good night.
21:44 <@NeddySeagoon> someone post logs to -nfp
21:44 <@Dr_Who> yup got them
21:45 <@Dr_Who> and my wife just got home afterbeing gone all week  so i've got timagain
21:45 < shpaq> fmccor: some things needs to be done first and i understand it
21:46 <@fmccor> shpaq, what happened this time is that we had a complete rurnover in the trustees.  This is undesirable and should be unusual.
21:46 <@fmccor> ^rurn^turn
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21:47 < Anquietas> hello
21:47 <@fmccor> shpaq, A Board of Directors (== Trustees) should seldom change much.
21:47 < Anquietas> I have a question, sorry I missed the public meeting...
21:47 < shpaq> fmccor: i know and i also realize You've got a lot of work to make things go on the right place
21:47 <@fmccor> Anquietas, Go for it.
21:48 < Anquietas> I want to ask when will Gentoo release the 2008.0 version ?.. on the website it says in one place that on March 17, and in other place it says on 31 March
21:48 < Anquietas> what is the real release date ?
21:49 <@fmccor> Anquietas, We don't know here.
21:49 <@fmccor> Anquietas, I'm pretty sure it's not tomorrow, though.
21:49 < Anquietas> ok,... thanks... :(
21:50 < Anquietas> I hardly wait the new version..
21:50 < Anquietas> and another question.. is kind of technical... where should I ask ?.. is there another channel ? or may I ask it here ?
21:50 <@fmccor> Anquietas, You could check with #gentoo-releng, but I think it requires explicit voicing.
21:51 <@fmccor> If you ask agaffney on #gentoo-sparc, he might have some information.
21:51 <@fmccor> wolf31o2 is the lead for the release process, but he might be hard to find.
21:52 < Anquietas> ok, thank you
21:52 <@Dr_Who> yes ... one thing about us trustees ... we are not in charge of releases :-)
21:52 <@fmccor> And I expect something in the next GMN, which is currently in final review and should be posted on www.gentoo.org soon.
21:53 < Anquietas> :)
21:53 <@fmccor> Anquietas, I can say it should be close, because parts of it that I know of are in test.
21:54 <@fmccor> Anquietas, Which is to say that it really does exist.
21:54 < Anquietas> ok, thanks... but somebody should update on the website the new release date if it's not tommorow
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21:55 <@fmccor> Maybe it is, but if so, I don't know about it.
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